Grief, Art, and Healing: Paula Di Marco on Finding Beauty Through Loss

Paula Di Marco Interview

10 Sound Effects 4: [00:00:00] Welcome to hard, beautiful journey, where we embrace vulnerability as our superpower and let courage light our path. I'm Tiff Carson here to share heartfelt stories of healing, grief, and resilience. Each week, I'll talk with guests from experts to everyday heroes. About their journeys through adversity together.

We'll uncover the beauty that emerges from life's challenges and how each experience can spark profound growth. Join us on this courageous journey of connection and transformation.

Tiff: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Hard Beautiful Journey. we dive into today's conversation, I want to offer a gentle warning. This episode will include discussions about suicide, mental health struggles, grief and trauma. you are in a vulnerable place, please take a moment [00:01:00] to check in with yourself and decide if this is something you're able to hold space for today. Your well being matters, and if you need support, please call. make sure and reach out to someone you trust or a professional resource. Grief is a journey that none of us choose, but one that inevitably shapes us. today I am honoured to welcome someone who has walked through the fire of loss, trauma, and healing with courage, creativity, and vulnerability.

Paula, Paula DeMarco is a writer, visual artist, and mental health advocate. Whose life took an unexpected turn after her partner Alex passed away to suicide in 2021. Through her art and words, she has not only processed her own grief, has also created space for others navigating similar pain. In this conversation, we're diving deep into the realities of loss.[00:02:00]

The complexities of loving someone with mental illness and the resilience it takes. rebuild after tragedy. My hope for you is that this conversation re reminds you healing doesn't mean forgetting. means finding a way to hold both the pain and the beauty in the same breath, and that from the darkest moments, something deeply meaningful can emerge. And if you choose to listen, I invite you to do so with gentleness toward yourself. Welcome to Hard Beautiful Journey, Paula.

Paula Thank you so much. What a beautiful intro. I was like, I think I'm gonna cry in the first minute.

Tiff: Thank you so, so much for being here. I know that this is a really hard journey have been on. Um, just as a quick intro, Paula and [00:03:00] I met through a

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: um,

Tiff: builders group. And we, we knew that We needed to talk and Paula reached out and we had a really beautiful conversation and after that I knew I needed to have you on my podcast that you're willing to share your journey. So thank you for being here.

Paula Yeah, thank you

Tiff: So

Paula honor.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: So,

Tiff: have in endured an unimaginable loss. And when you told me about your story, my heart was So, so broken for you, but you've turned your pain into something that now gives others hope and understanding. And if someone were meeting you for the first time and asked, who is Paula DeMarco beyond that grief?

How would you answer that?

Paula always comes to mind is that I'm an [00:04:00] artist, I'm a writer now, and I'm a cat mom.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Those

Paula Those are the three

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: three

Paula things, yeah.

Tiff: Being a cat mom is awesome, isn't it?

Paula It's the best. Like, I got connected with cats after my partner Alex, like, I took with me his cat after he passed away, his cat of 13 years, Nimbus, this beautiful cat. beautiful black cat and we became inseparable and he was such a big part of my healing journey. And then after he passed, I adopted another kitty.

So I think that now they're always going to be part of my life.

Tiff: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, do you want to? Talk about the, the passing of Alex or what are you comfortable sharing in regards to that part of your journey? [00:05:00] Yeah.

Paula but I'll try to keep it very, very simple. I met Alex in January 2020. Um, it was one of those COVID relationships. Like we met, we hit it off, things were going great. The pandemic hit we became each other's isolation buddies. And the first few months were perfectly fine until he had like, um, he had what I call an episode, like a very weird behavior to a situation.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: had

Paula And then he confessed he had PTSD. And at the time I thought it was mostly from, he was a veteran, he had been in medical missions in the Middle East, all over the place, and recently. So I always assumed he was from war. And I told him like, I was very understanding and compassionate. I was like, we can totally be together as long as you get help, [00:06:00] right? Uh, because we can't just pretend that these kinds of reactions are okay. And he got help. Uh, things progressed well. There were some episodes in the meantime, right? I was not expecting him to just be cured overnight. And especially with PTSD, it's not something that you're cured from, right? It's something that you, you learn to manage your triggers and your episodes. Um, And then things were progressing well, and we decided to move in together after a year. that's when things escalated out of control very quickly. until then, I have always seen him that he was like, very quick to anger. he would snap on little things. But now I started to see a depressive tendencies when I move in with him, something that I was not aware of.

And then he confessed that he had been suffering from depression all his life, something that I was not even aware of. He even told me that he used to be on medication. [00:07:00] And then he's starting to get like worse and worse. Sometimes he would just spend full days in bed, fully dressed, talking about very dark things.

I started getting very concerned, but it Even that point, it didn't cross my mind that he could make the decision to end his life, right? It never, that was so extreme, right? It never crossed my mind. And I remember reaching out to his family. We're so disconnected with COVID because I'm from Argentina. All my family's back home. Um, Alex had family in other provinces in Canada. Uh, no one was really there with us in Vancouver. And I hadn't had a chance to meet many of his friends because of COVID. So it's not like we had like a good support network around us. And I remember reaching to his counselor, trying to talk to his GP.

I was like, should he be on medication, right? He's just, his anxiety is off the chart.

Tiff: Mm-hmm

Paula And we didn't really get great support at the time. Like I kept knocking on [00:08:00] doors and I couldn't find any help and no one knew what to do. And I feel no one took it as seriously at the time. And then there was the first time that he actually threatened suicide. And that's when it hit me, like, Oh my God, like all these times that he's been like threatening to, he would always say like, Oh, I'm going to leave. I'm going to leave. I'm going to go back to war or I'm going to move where no one can find me, or I'm going to live a more simple life. And I really felt like, Maybe he'll move to the middle of the countryside.

I don't know. Maybe the city is too much for him, right? It never occurred to me that he was like actually talking about suicide when he was saying those things until he told me. And

Tiff: Mm-hmm

Paula that point on, it became a ticking clock. Like I remember it was just a countdown, right? Like I, I remember I was in a panic, right?

I was like, can I keep this person alive? Right? Like, just trying to buy him time and trying to keep him in a good mood and trying to solve problems for him, and to find treatments and reaching out to [00:09:00] doctors and talking to his family and, and also at the same time. When he was having these episodes and feeling triggers, he's starting to get more violent, like trashing things around the house, and I started to feel unsafe at the same time. I was in this very difficult position that is, that I don't want, I love him, I don't want him to hurt himself, I need to make sure that he's okay, that he's stabilized. relationship is also not working, he's making it impossible for me to be here, and he put me in this position that if I try to leave the relationship, He would threaten suicide and if I stay, he made my life a living nightmare just didn't know what to do.

Tiff: Mm-hmm

Paula then one morning after a fight, I decided to call the police because he got agitated and I was breaking things around the house and I told him this is not acceptable behavior. You can't just do that. I called the police and when the police came, he acted all calm and normal and an hour later, [00:10:00] he killed himself. Like, it was that fast, and it had not even been six months of us living together by then. Like, it happened so fast that I feel it took me months years to process what had happened. Like, I didn't have time to catch up to

Tiff: Mm-hmm

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Mm hmm.

Tiff: Thank you so much for sharing, sharing that part of your journey. I know it's not easy.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: easy

Tiff: To relive all the time. Um, and you've said to me and to others that grieving someone who has hurt you can be really complicated because he did hurt you too, right? Like in, in ways and in many ways. So how do you hold space for both the love that you had for him and the pain and what has that taught you about the healing journey?

Paula Yeah, that was a [00:11:00] very complicated position live with that contradiction. Like, I remember telling friends, like, that I was just, I feel I'm always going to be sad that he died. But the truth is that I feel safer in this world knowing that he's gone.

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula it's, I even feel bad sometimes for saying that out loud, but that is the truth.

Tiff: Mm

Paula And, and I feel for me it was key to not force anything, right? Because a lot of people tell you, Oh, you can't live with that anger. You have to get rid of it right away. That is bad. Poison for you. And of course it is, that's true, right? But it's a process that you cannot rush. I can't gaslight myself into forgiveness, right?

I was, was a lot. It was not only the abuse during the relationship after he passed, I learned about all the things he had lied about. I was like, I don't even know who I'm mourning right now. then he left me in a complicated financial situation.

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Paula way he took his [00:12:00] own life, I didn't know at a point.

You Did he take his life to set me free because he was in the past of ruining his life and mine, or did he do it in a way that he wanted to get back at me? Because he knew I was going to walk into that living room and find him, and that I was going to be traumatized, right?

Tiff: hmm. Mm hmm.

Paula if like, was it an act of love, or was it an act of hatred, right, that he had me?

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Uh,

Paula was it both, right? Because he was an individual full of contradictions, right?

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Um,

Paula And for me, at first, that was key, right? It's like feeling that anger. I was like, I'm angry right now. And just because people say you can't speak ill of the dead, that I can't express what I'm feeling right now. It's not that now that he died, going to turn him into a saint or a hero or just forget about all the bad things that he did, right? even at the time, I didn't even go to his memorial. I was like, I can't sit there in that [00:13:00] room and watch people celebrate this alter ego that he created for everyone else when sometimes he was a monster behind doors. And I was like, I don't have to go. No one's forcing me. I don't know what story the family told. People

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula like, I don't have to do this to myself. I'm not in a place right now to

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Paula to honor him at all. And, and I felt that allowing that, that anger to come out, it gets to a point that it's, it subsides, right? And I feel that through writing, through counseling, through all the different things, through actually like sitting with it, with that anger and trying to understand it, it got to a point that I remember when, when his cat died, I was going to put him down, I think it was on a Sunday the night before we were watching a movie and I was preparing him to cross the rainbow bridge and I remember I told him, you know what, when you see Alex, you can let him know that I'm not as [00:14:00] mad as I used to be.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: be.

Paula And that

Tiff: Mm

Paula like, two years after, right? But it took

Tiff: hmm.

Paula to get there. I got there, but it took me, it was a long road. And, and I feel that when the anger subsided, I could, I was able to feel again all the love that I had for him

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula feel compassion for the place that he was at.

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula I think for me, it was important to allow myself to feel everything, right?

Tiff: And do you still have those ups and downs, so that, that rollercoaster, or do you think that you're at a place of compa Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Paula the aftermath of his death and I want to be like, oh F you Alex for putting me in this situation, right?

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Paula like little moments like that. Like the truth is like, I've never been in a place that I'm like, oh I wish he's like burning in hell, right?

I've never been in that place. I was just, I was angry because he also, he check out, took no accountability, left a mess [00:15:00] behind, All I ever wanted was for him to be okay, and that still remains true.

Tiff: hmm.

Paula really wish that he's okay wherever he is.

Tiff: Yeah.

Paula I ever wanted for him.

Tiff: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Were you doing art before you met Alex and before all of this happened?

Paula Yes, I reconnected with my artistic side when I moved to Vancouver 10 years ago. used to be that artistic kid that was like drawing all the time. My mom used to be an artist as well. I'd say

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: I'd

Paula used to, she's still alive, but she was not like painting at the time

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: that

Paula I was born, so I never actually saw her making art. Um, yeah. But yeah, I reconnected with art when I moved to Vancouver. When I was living with him, I was painting. Uh, Even though

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Paula our living situation was so unstable, there was so much craziness going on, I would still try to make time to paint because it was the one thing that allowed me to remain [00:16:00] connected to myself.

Tiff: Mm hmm. Mm

Paula true after he passed. think I of picked up my art supplies about three, four months later, once I got to move into a new place and got settled.

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Paula so hard, like,

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Paula the painting, anything, right? Like, I felt like I had to relearn a lot of things. Like, I really feel that after grief and trauma, some things literally just fell off my brain.

I was like, I swear I knew how to do this, and now I can't do it,

Tiff: Yeah? Yep.

Paula So I had to kind of like relearn everything, and I remember I had a painting halfway through, like the first layers in. I was like, oh my god, do I even remember how to do this? And I remember I just said, I was like, just Paula, do what you always do.

Just trust the process, allow yourself to reconnect with it. I started painting and before I knew it, three hours had come by and I was totally in flow. And I was like, okay, I felt hope that I would be able to [00:17:00] reconnect with myself again.

Tiff: Mm hmm. So did you find it more of an outlet or a form of survival at that time for you?

Paula I think both, I think the one that was more survival was the writing because that was new to me.

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Paula completely new. Like I have always loved words and communication, but I'm a visual person. I would never like sit down to write. Maybe a little bit of journaling here and there, but that was it. But writing, I started writing the week after he died. Like

Tiff: you? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Paula I was just, I was stuck in a loop those days reliving the events of that morning when I found him. And I couldn't stop. I kept thinking, yeah, I came back through the back door and this and everything. It was the whole day. then I was like, why don't you sit down and write down every single detail of that morning? Because I feel my brain was doing that exercise of, I really don't want to think about this. But I'm [00:18:00] afraid I'm going to lose it if I don't hold on to the details. So I was like, I'm just going to write everything down and see if that helps.

And I felt so good after it. I managed to kind of let it go. And then I was like, maybe I should keep writing and see like other episodes that I had with him that didn't make sense or left me thinking. And they were like isolated essays. And then I was like, you know what, maybe I should just tell the whole story of what happened.

You know, like no embellishments, no square coding, no censoring, just things as they happen. And that's what I did. I started writing and writing and writing. during many times, because Alex's death was like the main thing that happened that, but it was like years, it was like at least three years of just one challenge after another,

Tiff: hmm. Yeah.

Paula was like the death of my cat, my beloved cat. And, and I felt that at times like writing was the thing that kept me going. Just kept me going. It was like a shelter and a friend and [00:19:00] my muse, right? And this space that hold me, this space where I could come and drop every dark thought and thing that was happening to me. And because sometimes I look back and I'm like, how

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Paula this grief?

brain and all the tiredness that I had and the little energy the many things I couldn't do because my brain was not working. How did I manage to write a full manuscript in English, which is not even like my mother tongue? Like now I think about it and it's like, how?

Tiff: Yeah.

Paula And I was like, no, I was fueled by something else, right?

Like I knew it was a lifeline.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Mm hmm.

Tiff: Did you find um, it was releasing just the pain as you were writing the words out and like allowing more love for him to come back? And compassion? Mm

Paula I think that at the end, I got to that place, but I feel [00:20:00] it really allowed me to dive deep into what I was really feeling.

Tiff: hmm. Mm

Paula process things in a way that I don't even know how I had managed to process that any other way. Because at first, I remember this specific chapter that I was writing when, My cat, Nimbus, passed, and for the longest time, I thought I was feeling guilt his death, and that's, I think, it's very common with

Tiff: hmm.

Paula by suicide, right?

It's the first thing, because

Tiff: hmm. What could I have done?

Paula right?

Tiff: yeah.

Paula to other deaths, it's like, well, it's completely out of your hands, right? But it feels so preventable, I remember going through all these what if scenarios, and what if I had done this and that, right? And I knew it was not my fault, but Still, like, I always,

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Paula the feelings of guilt kept coming back.

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula Uh, for some reason, when my cat died, he had a brain tumor that was something that I could have done nothing about it. I felt guilty right away. I was like, how [00:21:00] can this be? Like, Alex lived with you for six months, and he died. This cat lives for with you for a year. Like he was perfectly fine and now he died.

Like I couldn't explain that to myself.

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula And I feel that we, when we don't feel a sense of control, we wanna find someone to blame, right? Even if it is ourselves, which is an awful thing to do. And I remember that for the longest time I felt it was guilt. And then when I finish writing those chapters, I realized it's not guilt, it's fear. fear because now I know that something terrible can happen to the people I love and I might not be able to do anything about it.

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Paula And I didn't get there until I finished writing that chapter.

Tiff: That's a deep realization, right? Is that we don't have control over that.

Paula and that's, it's so terrifying, right? Yeah,

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Absolutely.

Tiff: So many people talk about after loss of somebody, like moving [00:22:00] on,

Paula yeah,

Tiff: but you've embraced a different perspective on it, and it's one that acknowledges carrying grief forward. Rather than leaving it behind. How has that mindset shift for you changed your relationship with healing? And you're

Paula you're chasing this one year thing. Uh, finish line, right? You think that if you reach the one year, it, right? Everything is going to be better. You just have to make it through the first year and I thought as well that I could cheat grief.

I was like, Oh, I'm going to work so hard on myself and then I'm going to get my life back and it's going to be fine.

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Paula I realized after the first year, I still have the waves of grief and I. And I panic. I feel so defeated. I was like, Oh my God, this is actually going to be with me for [00:23:00] the rest of my life, right? also people tell you that this experience is going to be with you for the rest of your life. And at the time it felt like a sentence, like a death sentence. I was like, days I can't even breathe and you're telling me that I'm going to have this with me? for the rest of my life.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Mm-hmm

Paula And then I got to a point, I think, it was a number of things.

I was reading this book. I think her name is Megan Devine.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Mm-hmm

Paula Uh, she's written It's Okay That You're Not Okay.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Mm-hmm

Paula And one of the things that she says that grief is not something to be done with. I was like, what? And I remember when I read that, I was like,

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: I was like.

Paula Also, I don't have to be done with this. There's nothing to be done with and it feels so freeing right because I was trying to complete an impossible task and I was like, okay, I don't have to be done with it. And then as I started to also learn how to hold space for it. And that happened during my suicide grief support group, I really, in those groups, you really have to, [00:24:00] you sit there, and there's this collective sadness in the room that you can't even breathe, people start telling you about their, the person that they lost, and their stories, and you sit there.

Okay, I see a couple of sorts of questions here that I just wanted to answer first, Roxann keeps showing up coming up every day to make this diploma So I thought I'd add on. when I was a graduate student,

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Paula I realized like, oh, wow, I can, I can still hold all this pain, but I could, I can still live a wonderful life.

It's not one or the other. And I started to honor this pain, right? This pain keeps me connected to Alex, made me a writer, it inspires my art, it shaped me into the person that I am today. So I, I completely changed my relationship to it. I

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Uh huh. And

Tiff: writing a book that's [00:25:00] hopefully going to be shared with the world that can help other people that have experience. Your kind of grief, your kind of loss, right? Because everybody's journey through loss and through grief is not the same, but there are similarities in the journey.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Yeah. And

Tiff: by you going through this experience and finding your writing voice and finding the courage to write that story, you're going to help somebody else as well. So

Paula so. Yeah, that's always the goal, right, when you're sharing your story, to offer comfort, hope, to connect with others. Yes,

Tiff: Yeah, absolutely. So loving someone with a mental illness be both deeply meaningful incredibly painful. I know that. Um, I've lived that as well. Looking [00:26:00] back, what do you wish you had known about navigating love and mental health, illness?

Paula yes. I feel, I feel mental illness should never became, become a Get out of jail free card, Should never become an excuse for abusive behaviors or violence or anything like that. I wish I had known that at the time. I feel I made the mistake. And I remember one of my counselors pointed out, I would always see that there was this

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Paula Alex, that was like my sweet loving Alex, and then this PTSD Alex.

And for me there were two different people. And I remember my counselor told me, this might be very hard for you to accept, But that other Alex, the cruel one, the manipulative, the abusive one, that's the same Alex. They're interwined. the moment you separate the two, you're allowing Alex to not take any accountability for his actions. I made the mistake of moving from a [00:27:00] place of supporting him to enabling him.

Tiff: Um, uh, um,

Paula and I repeat this to myself always, right? Like a relationship should never cost you your wellbeing. And sometimes we make the mistake of thinking that, um, That

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Paula to your well being is part of like, Oh yeah, relationships are hard work.

No, that's not what people mean, right? When they say that, right? You should never be renouncing to your well being.

Tiff: uh, um, uh. to take care of yourself, otherwise it's pointless. You are important in, in every relationship, right? So, you've been open about your experience on this podcast episode and in the work that you do

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: uh,

Tiff: suicide grief support groups. For someone who feels isolated in their pain, should they look for in a community like me?

That truly [00:28:00] understands what they are going through. Mm hmm. Mm

Paula at the time it was key. I was tired of like, feeling like an outcast. Like I feel that people would tell me all the time, I can't imagine what you're going through, like no one even knew someone else that had gone through something similar. And I was like, oh my God, if I hear that expression one more time, I'm going to snap.

I was like, I need to be surrounded by people who can relate. So I think finding a group that was specific as suicide grief, that was very important. then it should be always a non judgmental space, right? Once you're there,

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: you're there.

Paula I remember someone even mentioning during the first sessions, their own feelings of wanting to take their own lives, right?

Which I think is something that lot of people feel, right? Even if you're not planning to action in it, but when you lose someone you love very much, no matter the circumstances, it's a thought that comes to your mind.

Tiff: hmm.

Paula And I remember someone sharing that. And the [00:29:00] facilitator was

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: me.

Paula calm and listening and open, and I was like, oh, my God, we can say stuff like that here, right?

It's not like they're going to censor us or be like, oh, my God, you can't say that. And then I think in this group, they did a really good job that you could share. You could talk about your person, but we, we never shared,

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Paula details, You wouldn't share how they died or anything like that.

We kept it very clean, which I think it was important to not trigger other people,

Tiff: Yep.

Paula and they also did an amazing job. The ultimate goal was to help us connect to the person that, to the life of the person that we love, and not to their death.

Tiff: Yep.

Paula And they did an amazing job that way, right? I remember they, they made us, we had to do presentations, right?

And, and, and I remember when it was my turn, I was, was so upset because I had been listening to all these presentations about all these wonderful and loving people that they have [00:30:00] lost. And I'm like, oh, now I have to come here and talk about Alex. And I was still so angry. I was like, I don't have anything nice to say about him. I was like, I don't want to do this. And I

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Paula remember the facilitator, I felt like a high school kid, right? Like, I don't want to do this homework. This is BS,

Tiff: Yes.

Paula remember the facilitator was like, no, Paula, this is important for your healing journey. I was like, you know what? She was like, if you don't want to talk about Alex, you don't have to talk about Alex.

You can talk about your healing journey. Talk about your art, talk about. anything you want. This is your space. And then I went home and I was so upset. I was like, I can't believe that I came to this group to for connection and to not feel like an outcast. And I feel like an outcast again because they all have these wonderful people to talk about. I remember I sat down to write and I was like, okay, what am I going to talk about? And I was like, I should give them a little introduction about Alex, so I start typing. Well, I should tell them a little bit about it, and I got totally carried away, and I ended up, I ended up doing like a nice summary of like the good and the bad.

I was like, no, there were good stuff too, [00:31:00] there were bad stuff too, there was stuff that I learned from him, uh, and I ended up giving like the speech of a lifetime, right? I got totally carried away with this exercise

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Paula that I didn't want to do, but in the process of writing it, I got to like, In the same way when I was writing my book to all these aha moments that I'm like, oh my god I'm ready to release a lot of the anger that I had.

Tiff: Wow. That is, that's an incredible exercise to, work through. Um, and so that is the power of finding community for the, the journey that you are going on in that moment. Right. Whether it's grief or addictions or,

Paula totally.

Tiff: whatever, right. The power of community.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: So

Tiff: So,

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: was

Tiff: on.

Paula I was gonna say I think it's important for people to know that even if you find a really good group It might feel super uncomfortable at the beginning. So bear with it because you move past that [00:32:00] threshold it's it's totally worth it. Like there's a lot of healing that takes place.

Tiff: Yeah, absolutely. So, you have a blog, Beauty and Pain, and it's such a powerful title, because it captures the duality of loss and healing. How do you navigate that space between heartbreak and hope in your everyday life now?

Paula I think I had to reframe a number of things. I remember when, when I found Alex dead, the first thing that came to my mind was that expression, we both follow this ultra athlete, David Goggins. He's

Tiff: Mm hmm. Yep. Mm

Paula but sometimes he's, it's too much tough love. But I remember thinking, he always says, life is not fair, get used to it. And I was like, yeah, no shit. Right after I was

Tiff: hmm.

Paula through,

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: through it, I

Paula like, yep. I can't, who can argue that, right?

Tiff: Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm [00:33:00] hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Paula that happen in life.

You're not allowing for the really great things that can also happen. So, uh, I reframe that for myself instead of, life is not hard. I, I try to think life is mysterious, right? There's so much that goes on that I don't know why most things happen. I, I have no explanations sometimes why? I have an amazing person that I know gets cancer and passes, right?

Or a sweet child is born into the most ob, abusive, fem. I don't know. I honestly don't know, and I hate telling people everything happens for a reason, especially when they have love. Lost the person they love, like no one wants to hear that. when I say life is mysterious, I allow for that component that is unknown, but I like something terrible can happen.

Also something really great can happen. And I had to start learning how to connect with both because I got really good at holding space for [00:34:00] pain,

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Paula but I'm like, well, now I have to reconnect with like joy and beauty and love and kindness. Right.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: So

Paula I feel for me. expanding that capacity for pain and love, for me, that's the true meaning of resilience.

Tiff: I absolutely love that, and that, that is the title of my podcast. The hard and the beautiful parts of our journey, right? And that duality, and, and knowing that they, you're going to have both. throughout your life and honoring both of them, right? Because they're both teaching us something. So forgiveness is a very layered process and especially when the person that we're grieving has caused us pain throughout our lives. you feel you've reached a place of forgiveness with Alex and does that journey look like?[00:35:00]

Paula I would say yes, but I don't like the word forgiveness. I feel, I remember talking with my first counselor about this and when he just died with people telling me you have to get rid of this anger, you have to move on, you have to forgive him. And I was like, deep down, I was like, I'm not there yet. And I remember telling this to my counselor and she was like, Paula, like, forgiveness is granted for someone who has genuinely apologized and then

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Paula made amends for the situation.

Nothing of that has happened here, so you're not going to reach forgiveness. And I remember thinking, okay, if it's not forgiveness, then what am I striving for, right? And through this process, I realized that because forgiveness, I feel For me, it feels like you're okay with what happened. And I'm not okay with what happened.

Like, I'm never going to be okay with abuse and manipulation and violence. I'm not okay with any of that. But I realized that you can still not be okay with that and [00:36:00] not be stuck in a place of resentment, right? And I feel that with Alex, I got there, like, where I'm at peace with him. Like I said before, all I ever wanted was for him to be okay.

And that still holds true. And I'm not resentful at all. But I'm not okay with what happened, right? I'm never gonna be okay with that, even if it comes from him or from anyone else.

Tiff: It's that duality again, right? It's being able to honor both of those feelings that you experienced. So so much of our grief, I know this for myself, is processed through our body. has helped you physically move through the grief and are there any practices that surprised you? their impact.

Mm hmm. Mm

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Paula things.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Uh,

Paula physical, some non physical, like I mentioned before, for me personally. painting and [00:37:00] writing therapy together with counseling. I have a counselor that I absolutely adore and she's been like pivotal in my healing journey.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Um,

Paula I also do something called body talk therapy.

Tiff: hmm.

Paula it's called body talk. You don't,

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: you know,

Paula move physically, right? It's not exercise or movement, but that has been also really amazing. It helps you like release emotions and that you have stuck in your body. Um, then I love like a good workout, just walking like a nice walk. Uh, and

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Paula I have consulted some specialists like for acupuncture and naturopath.

Like I had a lot of health issues since Alex died. Like it really took a toll on me. I have from, Just periods of having no energy, like no energy.

Tiff: Zero.

Paula that I'm like, yeah, I know that today I'm going to try to make it through my workday, take a shower, eat a bite and [00:38:00] crawl into bed. That's all I'm going to do.

Right.

Tiff: hmm.

Paula know when I'm in those periods and it's fine. I tried to manage it. Or then I get recurring calls, right? My immune system is at all times low and I keep catching, I catch everything, right? That it's around.

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula been working with a naturopath and acupuncture to help me boost my immune system.

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Paula I had in 2020, 2022, I had a big health scare. Um, I had a polyp sitting in one of my vocal cords and they had to operate. And at the time they didn't know if it could be cancer or not. I thought what a coincidence, right? That. During that relationship, I felt that I had lost my voice because I stopped

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Paula for myself, right?

Just allowing things

Tiff: Yep.

Paula had

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: this,

Paula right?

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula got sick. So sometimes I wonder how much of what was going

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: happen.

Paula happening to me he absorbed, right?

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Right,

Tiff: Yeah. Oh, wow. but you're okay?

Paula I'm [00:39:00] okay. He ended up just being a polyp. It's funny because at first they told me, oh, it's a polyp. It's nasty.

Tiff: Mm hmm.

Paula when a few days before the surgery, they told me, oh, it could be cancer. And I was like, oh great. It was like my first surgery. just five days before my birthday. I was like, this is awesome.

Tiff: Yeah.

Paula you. Right.

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: then after that,

Paula And then after that,

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: my

Paula I was like holding my breath until the biopsy came back and they were like, Oh no, it was actually a polyp.

Tiff: Oh, God.

Paula Yeah.

Tiff: Oh, talk about stressful. Oh, my goodness. Mm hmm. So if someone is listening today, Paula, and they are standing in the darkest moment in their grief, in their entire life, how they are going to find a way forward. And I know many of them right now and that they are listening. would you say to them?

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Um,

Paula So during that

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: stage of

Paula early grief, right, the initial shock right after the death, um, I would say [00:40:00] even though the loss is going to be present in your mind the whole time, because that's how it is, there, there's going to be little breaks along the way. sometimes they're going to be very little. I remember like sometimes just spending some time with my pet, watching a show, and I would just disconnect from the tragedy, right, that had just happened, or. a coffee was a good friend. So that would be five minutes. Maybe that I would get you not think about it, right? Or feel a little of a moment of calm and just beauty, right? Uh, so I would say, be mindful of those little breaks and try to fill your tank as much as you can. And then practice also as much as you can self care, because your body is doing

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Paula for you right now to process the loss,

Tiff: Mm hmm,

Paula put it on top of it.

Any unnecessary demands.

Tiff: mm hmm,

Paula if you can get sleep, try to go for a little walk, try to, you [00:41:00] know. Eat nourishing food as much as you can.

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Paula Try to take care of your body because it's doing so much for you to process the loss. And then another big one, a tip that I got at the time from a grief counselor was just take one hour at a time. I remember I went into it with the mindset of take one day at a time. then she told me, no, that's too much right now. Just one hour at a time. What do you must do in the next hour? And

Tiff: mm

Paula not urgent, you don't have to do it at all.

Tiff: hmm, mm hmm,

Paula right?

Tiff: yep.

Paula that for me was key because when I thought about it, I was like, okay, one hour is it's manageable.

I can do one hour at a time. And then as I feel that with time, I don't like to

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Paula timelines because I feel that early grief is different from for everyone, but you'll know when you're out of it. Like for me, it was the first time I felt I could breathe with ease. Like I feel like, Oh my

Tiff: Like you could take a full breath, right? [00:42:00] Yeah. Yeah.

Paula I was like, it's like my lungs had finally expanded. I also knew because get to that day that their death is not the first thing you think about when you wake up and the last thought you have when you go to bed.

Tiff: Yep. I can absolutely relate to that. Absolutely it's that, moment, like you said, when you can take that full breath and where, yeah, you, you just have a different thought when you wake up and it's not, is this real? that actually happen?

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Yeah.

Tiff: am I? know, so absolutely agree with that. So I am going to bring up you on this screen.

So Paula, website here is www. paulademarco. art follow her on Instagram. is her Instagram handle right there, instagram. com, [00:43:00] paulademarcoart. And Paula, tell us a little bit about what you got going on With your book, like, are you going to be releasing it soon? Or what can we expect?

Paula I wish I knew. So I finished writing the manuscript last year. I'm in the process of editing. Um, I would like to really try to get a book deal. I think that's the first route I'm going to go. Then if I can, if I get no traction, I'm going to end up self publishing. in the meantime, I have my blog on Substack where I touch on topics from the book and also other things. So if people want to find me on Substack, I'm also Paula DiMarco and blog is Between Beauty and Pain.

Tiff: beauty and pain. Awesome. end every interview asking my guests what they are grateful for today. What are you grateful for today?

Paula A couple of things, uh, I don't [00:44:00] know if you heard, but it's been sunny in Vancouver in the winter, which never happens. It's been amazing. I was like, why am I so awake and full of energy? It's the sun. So

Tiff: It's the sunshine.

Paula it's the sunshine. It's been amazing. So that's been one. Uh, the second I released my latest blog post today and someone I know from my master program reached out to me and she told me she shared her own of suicide loss and she just Share the most beautiful words.

Like it's so nice when you put something out like that and you really get to connect with someone, right? So I felt super grateful for that. And then for this moment, I was really looking forward to have more time to chat with you.

Tiff: Thank

Ecamm Live Recording on 2025-02-11 at 19.16: Thank you.

Tiff: I absolutely loved our first conversation. And honestly, when you agreed to be on the show, I just know how many people it's going to help, including somebody that I went for lunch with [00:45:00] yesterday, an old friend from high school that I hadn't seen in many, many years, because I'm 50. Um, and she experienced the same thing as you.

Paula Okay.

Tiff: just was like, what the week that I'm interviewing Paula, I'm finding out the same about her situation. And so you never know who is going through a situation like your own and who you can be helping by sharing your story. So

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Tiff: today's gratitude is for you for being open and willing to share this. story, your journey, because it wasn't easy. Um, and what you've gone through in the last few years hasn't been easy. Um, so thank you, and I'm truly grateful for you.

Paula Thank you for having me.

Tiff: Alright everybody, go check out Paula, and check [00:46:00] out her blog, and hopefully we will see her book very soon. 

Thanks for being here for this episode of Hard Beautiful Journey. I hope today's episode inspired you to embrace your own vulnerabilities and recognize the strength within you. Remember, every story of resilience adds to the beauty of our shared journey. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, subscribe, and leave a review.

Your support helps me spread hope and healing to even more listeners. Until next time, Keep shining your light and embracing the beauty in your journey. Bye bye.